i think depending on economics, and that will be dan -- dan's will but hospitals will be more dependent on economics. >> managed care gets $30 million now? >> $30 million in 2014. we may drift for a while in managed care before we get to '14. and pharma is all about drugs, new drugs, new profits. >> right. do you macro look at the obama care taxes as being a headwind? >> sure. it's 3.8% on not marginal income tax rates. it's unearned income. but whether it's medical device tax, a question i was going to have for les is whether he sees any delays. do you see any delays in any of the implementations of these. obviously whether it's in minnesota with respect to the medical device tax, senators are talking about delaying implementation until they study this further. do you see that happening? >> seems unlikely. i mean, i know as an ex-minnesotan that they would love to see this tax go away. i'm not sure that that's in the cards. i think it's a fait accompli. it will take longer than people think leading to chaos. in 2014, states that don't expand to medicaid, it's going to leave people in t